Review 28 3.5 non ai năm 2024

Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

May 12, 2020

I'm having fun putting some film through a Nikon EM (it's my only Nikon camera). I am using a Nikkor-H 50mm f2 (which I assume must be AI converted since it works fine) and the Nikon Series E 75-150mm 3.5 lens. I would like one more lens to cover wide angle. I don't want to pay much at all, no more than about US$60 - 70 since it's just for a fun film project and money is tighter with the world in its present state.

I've done research, but Nikon is very confusing with all their non-AI, pre-AI, AI, AIS versions of lenses. For that budget, it seems the 24mm and 35mm lenses are out, as is the very well-regarded 28mm 2.8 AIS.

So it seems that a 28mm 3.5 lens is the only one that is that cheap, but I have a question about the versions. The Nikkor-H or -HC lens matches the look of the 50mm lens I have, which is nice, but as I understand it, it is pre-AI, so won't work. I have found a Nikkor-HC 28mm 3.5 AI-converted one for sale, and I like the look of it with its scalloped ring, so I read reviews of it, but the reviews weren't good. It is very good in the center, but outside of the center it never gets sharp even stopped down, is that right? It has character, but doesn't sound very good for landscape photos.

So I found some other 28mm 3.5 lenses that look the more modern AI style, but the listings often don't say if they are AI or AIS. How do I know? The AI and AIS versions look the same to me, and then apparently there is also a K version which looks very similar but won't work on the EM! Then I also read that the AI version can come in either an earlier 6 element or later 5 element design, so I won't know which one the lens for sale would be. Are both those AI designs good? Are they better than the scalloped Nikkor-HC type? Nikon makes some very nice vintage lenses but they are a lot more confusing than other brands!

If someone wants me to PM them the link to a couple of eBay listings I've got my eye on with these lenses, because you are able to tell me which version it is, and whether it is a good lens and will definitely work on my EM, I can send the links.

You could say that if it's just for film then any lens at all will have enough resolution, but I don't want to get a lens that is known to never get sharp, plus I will occasionally adapt it to my digital camera, so I'd like to know the lens is a decent performer.

Thanks.

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OP biggles266 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,306

Zoom alternative?

Alternatively, I could go with a zoom lens to get my wide angle - one which I noticed was cheap but apparently decent was the 28-70 3.5-4.5 AF zoom. I assume I can just focus it manually? But can I set aperture manually? A zoom gives more flexibility of focal lengths, which is good, but may not be as sharp as the prime I mentioned in my previous post? I had a look at some other old manual AI zooms but didn't see much that looked just right. Most start at 35mm or 40+mm, which is not wide enough, and also the very lightest zooms seem to be around 350-400g instead of the 240g of the prime lens. I really like keeping the set light, so I really don't want to go more than about 350g max.

Please let me know your recommendation regarding cheap manual AI zooms or the 28mm 3.5 I wrote about previously, or anything else I've missed to get a wider angle for my EM.

Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS M50 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +7 more

chulster • Contributing Member • Posts: 985

Re: Zoom alternative?

1

biggles266 wrote:

Alternatively, I could go with a zoom lens to get my wide angle - one which I noticed was cheap but apparently decent was the 28-70 3.5-4.5 AF zoom. I assume I can just focus it manually? But can I set aperture manually? A zoom gives more flexibility of focal lengths, which is good, but may not be as sharp as the prime I mentioned in my previous post? I had a look at some other old manual AI zooms but didn't see much that looked just right. Most start at 35mm or 40+mm, which is not wide enough, and also the very lightest zooms seem to be around 350-400g instead of the 240g of the prime lens. I really like keeping the set light, so I really don't want to go more than about 350g max.

Please let me know your recommendation regarding cheap manual AI zooms or the 28mm 3.5 I wrote about previously, or anything else I've missed to get a wider angle for my EM.

Don't get the AF 28-70 f/3.5-4.5. It's not a terrible lens, but it's not what most people would call good, and the focus travel is very short, so manual focusing is imprecise and unpleasant (it has this in common with most AF lenses, to be sure).

I can whole-heartedly recommend the 28-50mm f/3.5 Ai-s. I've been thinking about getting another copy, years after foolishly selling the one I had. Watch out! I may be competing with you on eBay for a copy in excellent condition.

But if the 28-50mm is too pricy, look for a 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 Ai-s. A very decent performer, if not as sweet and light as the 28-50mm.

chulster • Contributing Member • Posts: 985

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

biggles266 wrote:

(snip)

So I found some other 28mm 3.5 lenses that look the more modern AI style, but the listings often don't say if they are AI or AIS. How do I know? The AI and AIS versions look the same to me, and then apparently there is also a K version which looks very similar but won't work on the EM!

Ai-s lenses, when compared to Ai lenses, have two consistent external tells. (1) On the smaller set of f-numbers at the bottom of the aperture ring, the highest f-number (usually 22) is orange, while the other numbers are white. (2) There is a "divot" in the bayonet mounting ring, as in this picture:

Then I also read that the AI version can come in either an earlier 6 element or later 5 element design, so I won't know which one the lens for sale would be.

Normally, I rely on a combination of two web resources—the excellent and comprehensive Nikon lens pages at mir.com.my and the thorough list of Nikon lens versions compiled by Roland Vink. However, they didn't help me figure out how to distinguish the 6-element Ai from the 5-element Ai. Actually, I'm not convinced there was ever a 5-element Ai version. There is no mention of one on mir.com.my, but admittedly the pages about the 28mm f/3.5 Ai are uncharacteristically confusing. According to those pages, the K, the Ai, and the Ai-s all have 6 elements in 6 groups.

Ahh...you must be thinking of the 5-element Series E version of the 28mm f/3.5! It's easy to tell that version because it has "Series E" printed on the front of the lens.

Are both those AI designs good? Are they better than the scalloped Nikkor-HC type? Nikon makes some very nice vintage lenses but they are a lot more confusing than other brands!

As above, I think the Ai and Ai-s 28/3.5 lenses only came in one optical formula. I don't know whether this formula is any better than the earlier H (and H.C) formula. The H ones sure look nice, but I imagine Ai-converted samples are rare.

If someone wants me to PM them the link to a couple of eBay listings I've got my eye on with these lenses, because you are able to tell me which version it is, and whether it is a good lens and will definitely work on my EM, I can send the links.

I'm willing.

You could say that if it's just for film then any lens at all will have enough resolution, but I don't want to get a lens that is known to never get sharp, plus I will occasionally adapt it to my digital camera, so I'd like to know the lens is a decent performer. Thanks.

pluton • Veteran Member • Posts: 3,655

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

As above, I think the Ai and Ai-s 28/3.5 lenses only came in one optical formula. I don't know whether this formula is any better than the earlier H (and H.C) formula. The H ones sure look nice, but I imagine Ai-converted samples are rare.

The old, scalloped body, 6-element 28/3.5 H, and the "New Nikkor" or "K" version(featuring the rubber focus grip) are the same optical formula. The H.C and K versions are multi-coated, a slight improvement on this lens. There are both the old scalloped H and the more modern-looking K versions available used that were Ai converted back in the day.

With the advent of Ai, the formula was updated. This new, native-to-Ai version is physically a little smaller, and has slightly improved optical performance.

Based on owning these lenses in the film era, either the old H or H.C or K formula, or the "improved" Ai-native formula will give excellent performance (presuming a good copy) on film, including slow, contrasty, fine grain films. I have a K version even now, and occasionally still use it on modern Nikon digital cams.

OP biggles266 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,306

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to pluton • May 12, 2020

pluton wrote:

As above, I think the Ai and Ai-s 28/3.5 lenses only came in one optical formula. I don't know whether this formula is any better than the earlier H (and H.C) formula. The H ones sure look nice, but I imagine Ai-converted samples are rare.

The old, scalloped body, 6-element 28/3.5 H, and the "New Nikkor" or "K" version(featuring the rubber focus grip) are the same optical formula. The H.C and K versions are multi-coated, a slight improvement on this lens. There are both the old scalloped H and the more modern-looking K versions available used that were Ai converted back in the day.

With the advent of Ai, the formula was updated. This new, native-to-Ai version is physically a little smaller, and has slightly improved optical performance.

Based on owning these lenses in the film era, either the old H or H.C or K formula, or the "improved" Ai-native formula will give excellent performance (presuming a good copy) on film, including slow, contrasty, fine grain films. I have a K version even now, and occasionally still use it on modern Nikon digital cams.

Thank you for the helpful reply. This is the review which said that the H/HC version is not sharp except for the middle:

https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-28mm-f3-5-ai

I've looked on Flickr, and have seen some very sharp photos taken with a 28mm 3.5 - sharp to the edges on FF, so I know there is a version of the lens out there that is good, but unfortunately they don't say on Flickr which version it was.

Unfortunately the beautiful mint condition Nikkor HC with AI conversion that was up for sale just sold this morning (it did have quite a few watchers and was only $50), so that's a pity. But I'd still like to settle the question of the optical qualities of the AI vs the HC, so I know which one to look for. The HC version will match my 50mm best, but I would prefer to get the better one optically.

Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS M50 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +7 more

OP biggles266 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,306

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

I'll PM you a couple of links, thanks.

Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS M50 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +7 more

OP biggles266 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,306

Re: Zoom alternative?

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

chulster wrote:

biggles266 wrote:

Alternatively, I could go with a zoom lens to get my wide angle - one which I noticed was cheap but apparently decent was the 28-70 3.5-4.5 AF zoom. I assume I can just focus it manually? But can I set aperture manually? A zoom gives more flexibility of focal lengths, which is good, but may not be as sharp as the prime I mentioned in my previous post? I had a look at some other old manual AI zooms but didn't see much that looked just right. Most start at 35mm or 40+mm, which is not wide enough, and also the very lightest zooms seem to be around 350-400g instead of the 240g of the prime lens. I really like keeping the set light, so I really don't want to go more than about 350g max.

Please let me know your recommendation regarding cheap manual AI zooms or the 28mm 3.5 I wrote about previously, or anything else I've missed to get a wider angle for my EM.

Don't get the AF 28-70 f/3.5-4.5. It's not a terrible lens, but it's not what most people would call good, and the focus travel is very short, so manual focusing is imprecise and unpleasant (it has this in common with most AF lenses, to be sure).

I can whole-heartedly recommend the 28-50mm f/3.5 Ai-s. I've been thinking about getting another copy, years after foolishly selling the one I had. Watch out! I may be competing with you on eBay for a copy in excellent condition.

But if the 28-50mm is too pricy, look for a 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 Ai-s. A very decent performer, if not as sweet and light as the 28-50mm.

I'll check out these zooms, thanks.

Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS M50 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +7 more

cosmicnode • Veteran Member • Posts: 7,448

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

1

biggles266 wrote:

pluton wrote:

As above, I think the Ai and Ai-s 28/3.5 lenses only came in one optical formula. I don't know whether this formula is any better than the earlier H (and H.C) formula. The H ones sure look nice, but I imagine Ai-converted samples are rare.

The old, scalloped body, 6-element 28/3.5 H, and the "New Nikkor" or "K" version(featuring the rubber focus grip) are the same optical formula. The H.C and K versions are multi-coated, a slight improvement on this lens. There are both the old scalloped H and the more modern-looking K versions available used that were Ai converted back in the day.

With the advent of Ai, the formula was updated. This new, native-to-Ai version is physically a little smaller, and has slightly improved optical performance.

Based on owning these lenses in the film era, either the old H or H.C or K formula, or the "improved" Ai-native formula will give excellent performance (presuming a good copy) on film, including slow, contrasty, fine grain films. I have a K version even now, and occasionally still use it on modern Nikon digital cams.

Thank you for the helpful reply. This is the review which said that the H/HC version is not sharp except for the middle:

https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-28mm-f3-5-ai

I've looked on Flickr, and have seen some very sharp photos taken with a 28mm 3.5 - sharp to the edges on FF, so I know there is a version of the lens out there that is good, but unfortunately they don't say on Flickr which version it was.

Unfortunately the beautiful mint condition Nikkor HC with AI conversion that was up for sale just sold this morning (it did have quite a few watchers and was only $50), so that's a pity. But I'd still like to settle the question of the optical qualities of the AI vs the HC, so I know which one to look for. The HC version will match my 50mm best, but I would prefer to get the better one optically.

Have you checked this site by Bjorn Rorslett, he has tests for most of the manual focus lenses on earlier DSLR bodies, and some film bodies, he has not updated this site in many years but the information is still relevant.

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_wide.html

You will find a massive amount of information on Nikon cameras and lenses here,

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/photography.htm

-- hide signature --

Mike. "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

Nikon D1 Nikon D1X Nikon D1H Nikon D2H Nikon D2X +18 more

OP biggles266 • Senior Member • Posts: 1,306

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

chulster wrote:

biggles266 wrote:

(snip)

So I found some other 28mm 3.5 lenses that look the more modern AI style, but the listings often don't say if they are AI or AIS. How do I know? The AI and AIS versions look the same to me, and then apparently there is also a K version which looks very similar but won't work on the EM!

Ai-s lenses, when compared to Ai lenses, have two consistent external tells. (1) On the smaller set of f-numbers at the bottom of the aperture ring, the highest f-number (usually 22) is orange, while the other numbers are white. (2) There is a "divot" in the bayonet mounting ring, as in this picture:

Then I also read that the AI version can come in either an earlier 6 element or later 5 element design, so I won't know which one the lens for sale would be.

Normally, I rely on a combination of two web resources—the excellent and comprehensive Nikon lens pages at mir.com.my and the thorough list of Nikon lens versions compiled by Roland Vink. However, they didn't help me figure out how to distinguish the 6-element Ai from the 5-element Ai. Actually, I'm not convinced there was ever a 5-element Ai version. There is no mention of one on mir.com.my, but admittedly the pages about the 28mm f/3.5 Ai are uncharacteristically confusing. According to those pages, the K, the Ai, and the Ai-s all have 6 elements in 6 groups.

Ahh...you must be thinking of the 5-element Series E version of the 28mm f/3.5! It's easy to tell that version because it has "Series E" printed on the front of the lens.

Are both those AI designs good? Are they better than the scalloped Nikkor-HC type? Nikon makes some very nice vintage lenses but they are a lot more confusing than other brands!

As above, I think the Ai and Ai-s 28/3.5 lenses only came in one optical formula. I don't know whether this formula is any better than the earlier H (and H.C) formula. The H ones sure look nice, but I imagine Ai-converted samples are rare.

If someone wants me to PM them the link to a couple of eBay listings I've got my eye on with these lenses, because you are able to tell me which version it is, and whether it is a good lens and will definitely work on my EM, I can send the links.

I'm willing.

You could say that if it's just for film then any lens at all will have enough resolution, but I don't want to get a lens that is known to never get sharp, plus I will occasionally adapt it to my digital camera, so I'd like to know the lens is a decent performer. Thanks.

That's really helpful information, thank you.

Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS M50 Canon EF 85mm F1.8 USM Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM +7 more

smithim • Senior Member • Posts: 1,950

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

I've had the 28mm f3.5 AI version for decades, and find it to be sharp across the frame for a w/a lens - but then I tend to use w/a lenses at their optimum apertures (e.g. f8), which tends to help.

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

Pick up a 35mm or 28mm E series lens. They are Ais lenses, and were the economy version of Nikon's 35 and 28mm Ais lenses. These are usually quite a bit under $100 U.S. They were made with polycarbonate for the body, but the glass is all good Nikkor glass. People get rid of these many times with the EM camera at garage sales, Pawn shops, and eBay. They came in two variants, one had a chrome ring, and the other was all black. Nikon made tons of E series lenses, happy hunting.

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Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

4

I have two copies of the Nikkor-H.C 28mm f/3.5 with factory Ai conversions. I think its a very good looking lens much like the 50mm f/2 H.C

Both behave exactly the same on digital, so my observations are probably consistent with this lens design in general and not just sample variation.

The lens is very sharp at the centre. Easily shows aliasing on the D850 given the right subject. Moving from the centre to the mid-frame, the sharpness may seem to fall off dramatically. This is mostly due to severe field curvature that moves towards the camera. Focusing at infinity will not render infinity sharp in this mid-zone of the frame on either of my lenses, even though the centre will focus slightly "beyond" infinity at the hard stop. At the edges, field curvature moves backwards in line with the centre again. The field curvature runs like the image shows below... Note that I haven't used this lens on film, as I acquired these lenses after selling off all my film gear.

It also has a lot of vignetting and a subtle colour shift.

To me, it's not a stellar performer, not even average, but this is based on digital use only. But it's a super interesting and fun lens that can be used if one takes advantage of the field curvature. I really like it because it's interesting. If you want to see some higher res sample images, here are some Zoomify samples...

The image data is at the bottom of the images. Use the scroll wheel to zoom in and out. Image 1 (f/11)

Image 2 (f/11)

Image 3 (f/4)

Image 4 (f/8) EDIT: I forgot to ad that this lens does really nicely reversed and extended. Here is an image of poppy seeds with two M2 extension rings.

chulster • Contributing Member • Posts: 985

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

Nice mini-review! Did you make those field curvature visualizations yourself? If so, how?

bokesan • Contributing Member • Posts: 859

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

1

The one with the large front lens? To me, it's the best-looking of the 28mm Nikkors. The Series E would be the "correct" lens for the EM, though. And it should not be more expensive than the 3.5.

I never compared the lens directly to the 2.8 AI-s or the 2.0 (both sold). I suppose it might be less sharp, but at f/8 or so it is certainly sharp enough for film. It's supposed to be sensitive to reflections (large front lens, for one thing), but I never had any problems with that.

As it happens I had a 3.5/28 AI in my bag today. Here's a shot of the office backyard and crops at f/5.6 and f/11. Z7, Tripod, self timer, EFCS, ISO 64, Capture One with defaults, CA correction disabled because you want it for film.

Full scene

Center crop 100%

Left edge

Right edge

bokesan • Contributing Member • Posts: 859

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

1

chulster wrote: Ahh...you must be thinking of the 5-element Series E version of the 28mm f/3.5! It's easy to tell that version because it has "Series E" printed on the front of the lens.

It's also f/2.8, not 3.5

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

1

chulster wrote: Nice mini-review! Did you make those field curvature visualizations yourself? If so, how?

Thanks. Yeah, I did it myself. Not anything scientific, just something I do with new lenses to test for asymmetry across the frame or just basic field curvature tendencies.

One needs to use flat, even surfaced areas with texture. Coarse concrete, interlocked paving, or even asphalt does well. Its really hard to find flat surfaces that are not uneven, but one needs to try and get everything lined up in the frame as good as possible.

I run a filter in Photoshop which gives me an image which roughly outlines the line of focus as seen above, but that then needs to be tweaked with levels or curves to get a clearer image.

In Photoshop, select Filter menu, then Other > Custom...

Enter the values below.

Then adjust levels until the image suits your needs. Its crude, but it works.

Some lenses behave differently

bokesan • Contributing Member • Posts: 859

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

In reply to chulster • May 12, 2020

chulster wrote: Nice mini-review! Did you make those field curvature visualizations yourself? If so, how?

I do it like this: http://bokesan.blogspot.com/2017/11/a-simple-test-for-field-curvature-loca.html

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

Michigan Sandman wrote: Pick up a 35mm or 28mm E series lens. They are Ais lenses, and were the economy version of Nikon's 35 and 28mm Ais lenses. These are usually quite a bit under $100 U.S. They were made with polycarbonate for the body, but the glass is all good Nikkor glass. People get rid of these many times with the EM camera at garage sales, Pawn shops, and eBay. They came in two variants, one had a chrome ring, and the other was all black. Nikon made tons of E series lenses, happy hunting.

The 75-150 f3.5 Series E zoom is considered to be a classic Nikkor lens, an economy lens that turned out to be an excellent performer. Galen Rowell was a big fan and back in the day the 75-150 was adopted by many New York City fashion shooters.

The lens was in such demand that it actually went up in price after it was discontinued. In the late 80s I paid $189 for a like-new used copy and I think that I got a great deal. (I'd been looking for the lens for quite some time. . .) The optional HN21 metal screw-in lends hood is a no-brainer accessory as it reduces flare and protects the front lens element from damage.

Opinions regarding the optical quality of the Series E glass varies greatly depending on the lens. . . The chrome version of the 75-150 is the second version of the lens. It is considered to be more robustly constructed, with the updated version addressing some issues that the original design had. I can attest that the 75-150 is mostly metal and that it has more in common with its pro-oriented Nikkor brethren than modern lightweight plastic Nikon kit zooms.

My copy impressed me so much regarding its overall sharpness that I actually sold a 105mm AIS Nikkor because I wound up using the zoom much more than the prime lens.

Like any old manual focus lens the 75-150 can develop "lens creep." Its "one touch" zoom/focusing ring contributes to the problem. However, a basic CLA will fix it. . . I had APS work on my 75-150 some years back and it came back working like new. The cost was a whopping $75.

Nikon History: 75-150 Nikkor Series E Lens

Intro To Nikkor Series E Lenses at Mir.com With links to the 28mm, 35mm and other lenses.

chulster • Contributing Member • Posts: 985

Re: Questions about 28mm f/3.5 lens versions for the Nikon EM

Very cool!

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